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you

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and morty baby

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welcome to this edition of the

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astronauts i'm lynn Bondurant during the

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next half hour we talk with former

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astronaut Michael Collins who was on the

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first manned mission to land on the moon

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that mission is called Apollo 11 and it

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culminated in one of the most

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significant events in known history his

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two companions astronauts Neil a

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Armstrong and Edwin Buzz Aldrin were the

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first two human beings to walk on the

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moon surface the mission took place from

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July 16 to 24 1969 it lasted 195 hours

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18 minutes and 35 seconds as call for by

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the Mission Plan Collins did not descend

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to the moon surface but remained in

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lunar orbit with a command module before

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we go to our interview with Michael

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Collins let's see part of a 1969 film

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documenting that historic flight the

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film is called eagle has landed

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other astronauts had made this journey

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to the launch pad but never with such

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anticipation

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three hours later the Apollo command

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module moves forward to extract the

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lunar module from the third stage of the

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launch vehicle both are moving at more

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than 17,000 miles an hour docked

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together they will sail a quarter

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million miles across the sea of space

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and into orbit around the Earth's

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nearest neighbour during the three-day

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journey to the moon the astronauts kept

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busy checklists navigation and

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observation

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they must work in a weightless

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environment keeping their spacecraft and

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themselves in good condition data must

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be collected and reported experiments

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must be performed including photography

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both inside and outside the spacecraft

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because of the film speed these actions

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July 19 Apollo 11 slows down and goes

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into orbit around the moon the bright

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blue planet of Earth now lies 238,000

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miles beyond the lunar horizon

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astronauts Armstrong and Aldrin now in

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the lunar module separate from the

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astronaut Collins remains behind

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preparation for the lunar module descent

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you

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the command module assumes the new name

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the lunar module will be called the

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from Colombia Michael Collins camera

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sees bright rays of the Sun reflecting

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patterns of color from the surface of

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the Eagle in this strange metallic bird

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rides the ancient and endless dream of

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all mankind the command pilot can see

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detail which his camera cannot record

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the four landing pads of the lunar

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module are fully extended and locked in

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place the Eagle is poised and prepared

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you

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the moon landing craft rocket engine

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fires to slow it down and to place it on

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the pathway to the landing site in the

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Sea of Tranquility there is tension than

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caution as the eagle flies lower warning

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lights blink on as the computer tries to

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keep up with a demand for control data

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but the status remains go eagle we got

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you down looking good over Houston after

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you're around angle s van pitch - I know

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y'all +18 rocket you're ago - can you go

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to continue park you're a go to continue

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quality altitude now 21,000 feet still

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looking very good velocity down out of

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1,200 feet per second looking great that

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vehicle with the reading on the 1202

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program for life rocket we got you we're

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going at alarm good radar data we're now

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in the approach phase everything looking

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good

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altitude 4200 thing you're go for

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I'd read it then go for landing 3,000

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feet dive alarm altitude 1,600 1,400

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feet still looking very good

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100 feet 21 down 33 degrees 100 feet

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down at 1900 1 1201 rocket 1201 alarm

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we're go think I will go altitude

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velocity light it is down to 20 feet 15

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forward forward go down I plate 200 feet

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point a nap down five and a half

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down two and a half

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alright alright

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but

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20 feet down to a nap picking up some

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dust

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fall forward forward ripped into the

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I'm back right okay engine stop we copy

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Bangor eBay PayPal I've landed

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through the window of the eagle

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armstrong and aldrin see what no human

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eyes have ever seen before their

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spacecraft casts a long shadow across

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seven hours after landing after careful

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preparations for later air scent were

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completed Armstrong opens the Eagle

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hatch and begins his climb down to the

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the first footsteps on this strange new

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world must be taken cautiously the moon

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has only 1/6 the gravity of Earth the

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nature of its surface was still unknown

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upon all fifth man one giant leaf now

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that we've seen some of the historic

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film of the Apollo 11 mission we're

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almost ready to go to the interview I

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had with Michael Collins following the

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publication of his second book liftoff

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but first here's a little background on

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Collins Michael Collins is a retired

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Major General in the US Air Force

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Reserve he was born October 31 1930 and

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Rome Italy here in a Bachelor of Science

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from US Military Academy

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besides Apollo 11

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he flew in the Gemini 10 earth orbital

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mission which was preparatory for Apollo

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missions Collins walked in space during

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the Gemini 10 mission for one hour and

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30 minutes astronaut John Young flew

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with him on that mission which lasted

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from July 18th to July 21st 1966 now

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let's go to my interview with Collins

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when I asked him what he was trying to

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accomplish with his latest book liftoff

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well I think people have very short

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memories and I thought it might be

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interesting to go back 20 years or so 19

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years it's been already since the first

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lunar landing but to go back to the time

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of John F Kennedy when he first started

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project column by by saying he wanted to

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send a man to the moon and returning him

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safely to earth by the end of the decade

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the decade being the 1960s and I thought

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you kind of nice to put down in

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sequential order some of the preparatory

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steps Project Mercury project Gemini

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project Apollo and to talk a little bit

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about those machines and how they worked

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but also to talk about the people who

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put them together the people who flew

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them and then just to keep that going

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right on up through Skylab the shuttle

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an examination of where NASA is today

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and then some possibilities for the

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future so that's fundamentally what the

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books about

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Mike looking back to the

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days of the Gemini in the Apollo

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programs to today's flight of the

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shuttle what do you see as some

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differences as related to astronaut

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training I think the the shuttle is more

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complicated by far than the early

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machines were the Apollo command module

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I thought was a was a real handful it

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was to me it was sort of like painting

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the Brooklyn Bridge by the time I got to

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the end of it there was something I'd

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forgotten at the beginning and for me it

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was a constant process of Education of

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learning and yet they tell me the

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shuttle is probably the equivalent of

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for command modules in complexity so

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that's the main difference what about

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you know public support comparing it you

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know in the past during Gemini Apollo

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and today it seems as though in the past

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there was a lot more public support for

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going to the moon then even there is

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today for say putting a space station in

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orbit well I think there are some

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fundamental differences one is that the

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President Kennedy got very personally

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involved Capitol Hill in those days was

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more apt to go along with White House

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programs than they are today so it got

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the enthusiastic support of the Congress

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and I and I think the people the

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difficulty with the space station I

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believe is that it's to be a research

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facility it's to find out answers to

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difficult questions and yet a lot of the

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politicians and budget tears and

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bureaucrats want NASA to list exactly

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what the answers to those questions are

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before they fly this research laboratory

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well that's simply not possible you

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can't that's the whole point in going is

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to is to have a research facility and

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and to learn as much as we possibly can

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I mean we never would have had the

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invention of penicillin for example if

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if the people doing the work had had to

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take that NASA like approach and say in

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20 pages why they were studying this

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particular mold or fungus and and what

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the spin-offs of it might possibly be so

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as a nation and we're really struggling

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to I get you

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and identify a space policy you know you

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look at the shuttle space policy and

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it's many people considered a real

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disaster what do you think we have to do

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to turn things around there is a fairly

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recent space policy issued by the Reagan

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White House which makes a good deal of

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sense and it includes sending people out

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into the universe but that policy has to

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be backed up with a high priority by the

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President himself by his staff by the

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leaders in Congress and I don't think

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that's happened because NASA is still

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appropriated less than 1% of the federal

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budget and and I think they need a

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little bit more to get an aggressive

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good long-range program going Mike

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thinking back over the past 30 years

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that nASA has been around what do you

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think have been NASA's five greatest

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accomplishments or achievements I've

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always thought that the first lunar

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landing by the end of the decade was

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probably what NASA did best I think in a

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way though I think Apollo 8 was a more

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fundamentally important for flight than

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Apollo 11 Apollo 8 you recall was the

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one that first saw men breaking away

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breaking bonds of gravity and reaching

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escape velocity another achievement that

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people forget but is a little thing

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called pioneer 10 pioneer 10 is the

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first manufactured first object made by

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humans to leave our solar system it's

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gone out past the orbit of Pluto has

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headed out for all times for infinity

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out into the universe

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I think the unmanned landing on Mars by

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the two Viking landers where

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I think that was a very important

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achievement so I guess I might say this

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is a short and quick list but Apollo is

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8 and 11 pioneer 10 and Viking and then

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the fifth one I'm going to put in the

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future and I'm going to say that's the

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Hubble Space Telescope Mike now that

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you've thought about NASA's 5 major

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accomplishments do you think that Mars

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should be NASA's next major initiative

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or endeavor yes I really do I think I

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think Mars would be so important and so

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long range of goal that it would pull in

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its wake a lot of things that NASA is

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trying to do today but not having much

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success with for example if you want to

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return to the moon I think probably a

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better justification for it is that it

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be a way station on the way to Mars I'm

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not saying that you have to have a

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colony on the moon or that you must

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return to the moon in order to reach

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Mars you don't but if Mars were your

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goal you might very well discover that

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the most practical way to get there

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would be to build a lunar colony first

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clearly if Mars were your goal you need

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a space station and the purposes to

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which that space station would be put

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would be much more clearly defined and I

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think NASA would have an easier time

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justifying and obtaining the funds for a

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space station as a precursor to Mars

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especially from the human factors

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physiological point of view I think a

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lot of things would pull in in the wake

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of a Mars initiative you know Mike do

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you think that the enthusiasm and the

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incitement on planet Earth will be as

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great for a mission to Mars as it was

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for the Apollo missions to the moon I

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think so I think Mars is a lot more

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interesting place than the moon although

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it is certainly true that the Viking

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results were disappointing in that they

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didn't find any life on Mars and

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little green men but the possibility

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exists that there used to be life on

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Mars and I think it would be fascinating

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to go digging the surface looking for

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fossils and studying the planet from the

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surface to try to determine why you have

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these two almost twin planets Earth and

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Mars and why they turned out so

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differently why the water there one time

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dug deep channels in the surface of Mars

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why did that dry up and blow away why

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did the Martian atmosphere become so

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thin how did it dissipate what can we

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learn about our own planet from studying

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this one that's had such a different

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history do you think that the mission to

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Mars should be international in scope

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that would certainly be nice complicates

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an already complicated task but I think

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it's worth a try and I think we ought to

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ought to try to put together not just a

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u.s. Soviet joint venture but rather one

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that includes a lot of other countries

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as well the Japanese the Europeans let

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anyone who can contribute technology and

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money throw it into the pot and do it do

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it in terms of humankind leaving this

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planet and establishing a settlement on

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Mars rather than any one nation doing it

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you know thinking back at the time of

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the Apollo missions there were very few

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nations involved in space exploration

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and currently they're over a hundred

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what would be the differences or the

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implications or influences versus many

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more people on a global scale involved

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in space exploration you know versus

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just a couple well of course so the more

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countries that are involved I suppose

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the more popular greater support section

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on our voyage would enjoy it does the

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negative side of it is it makes it makes

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it very difficult it's difficult enough

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I remember from project Apollo to get

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two or three American companies all

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working together harmoniously never mind

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people

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who are divided by an ocean and

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different languages different mores and

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cultures even a different system for

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weights and measures one of my favorite

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quotes in your book is these are not

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ejection seats but Thrones facing out on

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the universe and we are wealthier than

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kings by going into orbit boards say a

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Gemini spacecraft or around the moon or

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to the moon in the Apollo spacecraft

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does it really change one's perspective

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of themselves and of the planet Earth

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I think certainly to go as far away as

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the moon and look back on the earth

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certainly does affect your perspective

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the Apollo command module had had five

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windows in it and when your quarter of a

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million miles away from Earth and you

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look out the window to find it very

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common to be no earth in any one of the

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five the earth is down under you over

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your shoulder somewhere else so that's a

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strange sensation to have to maneuver

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around even to find your your home and

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then when you see it tiny is your

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thumbnail held out in front of you at

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arm's length that sort of gets your

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attention a beautiful sight tiny

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pristine blue and white very fragile

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looking object shining like a beautiful

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little headlight out there in the black

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velvet of space it does change your

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perspective it makes you think that we

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have to take better care of this little

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fragile entity because it is fragile and

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it also leads one in the direction of

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thinking about problems globally

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thinking back on your own career as a

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Gemini and Apollo astronaut I think you

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had a chance to take a couple of EB A's

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when base walks yes all right could you

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describe that and was it perhaps in

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terms the air sighs one of the scariest

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things that they have to do it wasn't it

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wasn't one of the most fun things that

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an astronaut gets to do it wasn't really

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wasn't really scary but it was

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it's like being cooped up inside a

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bathhouse let's say and then suddenly

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being freed and allowed to go up and do

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a double back somersault off the high

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board it was sort of that that feeling

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of release of freedom of getting out of

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a confined space of having the whole

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whole world at your feet to being able

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to see in all directions without

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confining spacecraft windows it was a

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wonderful sense of liberation of freedom

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of floating of being one with the whole

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universe and today using the MMU versus

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an umbilical cord I know it gives much

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more freedom it takes a different kind

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of training does it not yes the

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astronaut maneuvering unit is a

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miniature spacecraft in itself and it's

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a wonderful gadget it's flown like a

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spacecraft you have each hand with its

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assigned tasks to either turn you this

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way or that way up or down or to move

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you backwards and forwards and so the

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people who have I've never never flown

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00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:07,960
with it but the people who have clearly

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really are enjoying themselves and have

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a lot more control over where they go

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and what they do you do dangling out of

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the end of an umbilical cord one last

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question if you had to give some words

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of wisdom to young people about the

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future and their partner Space

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Exploration what might you encourage

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them or how well I think whatever their

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00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:35,530
field whether it be space or some other

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00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,100
field I think to try to be the best in

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that field to really strive for

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excellence to I think that gives people

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of a feeling of confidence and a feeling

435
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of well-being to know that they've put

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their everything into something and

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they're the best they can be at it

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00:27:01,950 --> 00:26:58,150
certainly was true I think as a space

439
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:01,960
program man and I think space program

440
00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:05,200
will always be an area right on the edge

441
00:27:09,210 --> 00:27:08,200
of of our knowledge on the edge of our

442
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:09,220
technology

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00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:12,340
frontier of physically and mentally of

444
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:15,070
the things we do and to me it would be a

445
00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:16,900
fascinating area for young people to

446
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:20,200
become involved with certainly is we get

447
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:22,000
into the 21st century we're going to see

448
00:27:27,870 --> 00:27:25,060
some remarkable advances in our space

449
00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:27,880
technology and would be a good career to

450
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:30,700
be part of that the interview you just

451
00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:32,530
saw with former astronaut Michael

452
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:34,990
Collins was recorded earlier when he was

453
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:38,050
in Cleveland in future programs we will

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see and visit with other astronauts

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00:27:45,270 --> 00:27:43,510
until then this is Lynn Bondurant saying

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00:27:57,919 --> 00:27:45,280
goodbye from the NASA Lewis Research